If my memory is correct I remember seeing some information about there actually being an older Catholic or Anglican publication called the Watchtower.
Island Man
JoinedPosts by Island Man
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34
The origin of the name and masthead illustration of The Watchtower
by Gorbatchov inthanks to the great "watchtower history" blog with historical information about the pre- and early bible students years, i became today aware of the origine of the name the watchtower and the masthead illustration in front of the old magazines.. in c.t.
russell's younger days, his mother and other relatives died and were buried on the family plot at the allegheny cemetery.. it must have been a defining moment voor the young ctr.
look at his inspiration to choose the name and masthead of his magazine.
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Watchtower can cite their sources after all
by wannaexit inas far as i can remember watchtower has been notorious for not citing their sources in their literature.
the most they will do is to cite their in house, long living expert by the name of scholar.
after 40 + years all i've ever read is the mantra "one scholar says" ad nauseum.
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Island Man
The secret of freedom lies in educating people, whereas the secret of tyranny is in keeping them ignorant.
Nice quote.
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Ray Franz was an Idiot
by vinman inray franz who gave us insight into the gb due to a crisis of conscience was an absolute moron, with absolutely no critical thinking skills whatsoever like all of us have.
i mean, to have a conscience based on some magic man in the sky.. how stupid can you be?
in search of christian freedom?
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Island Man
Ray may have continued to be a deluded theist, but I think that his continued christian-theism delusion did a lot more good than would have been done if he became an atheist.
You see, if Ray had become an atheist then much fewer JWs would have woken up as a result of his defection. Had he become an atheist then Watchtower's characterization of his as an apostate would have seemed even more justified and would have had far more credibility with JWs.
But because he continued to be a christian he maintained a valuable common ground with JWs - the bible, belief in Jehovah, Jesus, christianity - which he can use to help them see Watchtower's error. A person who believes the bible and knows it well, has a greater chance of being able to help JWs see the error of their ways in light of the bible; than would an atheist trying to disprove Watchtower. The JW will completely shut his mind to the latter, but will give a measure of attention and credence to what the former has to say - to the extent that he can show its coming from the bible.
So Ray was a very valuable asset in helping many escape Watchtower. Many who later became atheists, started their journey out of Watchtower by reading Ray's books. That journey may never have started if Ray was an atheist. No God-believing JW is going to give credence to an atheist's criticisms of Watchtower. So Ray serves as a valuable stepping stone or gateway from Watchtower to atheism - for those who do later become atheists. For most, the journey cannot be straight from Watchtower to atheism. It has to be from Watchtower to more moderate theism and then atheism.
Don't be dissing Ray.
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why did the sacrafice have to be so BRUTAL
by Tater-T inwhy did the sacrifice have to be so brutal... i mean what value does that add to the equation of justice.couldn't he jesus have came down and just been slaughtered like a regular sacrifice without the brutal torture.why is justice served by brutalityanyone anyone bueller... lolnow you know i don't like to type for hours but this is always bothered me
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Island Man
Ancient religions throughout the earth have been practicing human and animal sacrifice for centuries before the advent of Judaism and christianity and its not hard to see how the offering of sacrifices arose.
Ancient people attributed agency to deadly events like droughts, storms, volcanic eruptions, etc. They assumed that a god or gods were behind them and brought them to take human lives. So if the gods bring horrible disasters to get human lives how do you stop the gods from bringing the disasters? Simple. You find a way to give the gods what they want - human lives - so that they would have no need to bring the disaster to get them. So you offer the gods sacrifices. True, lives are still being taken. But the difference with sacrifices is that the community gets to feel like they're at least in control of the situation. They can determine who dies and when they die instead of having to be in the powerless situation of a god unexpectedly bringing a disaster to kill god knows how many, who and in what manner.
But then another problem arises - the amount of people killed in natural disasters are invariably more than the amount of people that will be sacrificed to avert them. Why would a god accept the death of one person served up on a platter when he can claim a hundred lives in a flood? This idea likely troubled the ancients. So how did they resolve it? They don't just offer up anyone. They offer up the best among them- the most beautiful, the most strong, the most virtuous - the virgin - the one or few who are the most perfect in the community. Surely the gods would prefer to have a few guaranteed high quality lives served up to them on a platter rather than working to take lives in a natural disaster where persons of all sorts die with no guarantee that they'll get a life of good quality. And thus the notion of having a suitable sacrifice of high quality - an unblemished lamb, an innocent, chaste virgin, etc.
Sacrifices also work for the belief that the gods bring disasters to punish the people for their sins. Instead of the whole community being punished for their sins by the gods, why not have one individual bear the sins of the whole community and be punished on behalf of the whole community? But if this person is himself a notorious sinner then it would stand to reason that he deserves punishment for his own sins. So perhaps when the gods are finished with punishing him for his own sins there wouldn't be any of him left to be punished on behalf of the rest of the community and the gods will still punish the community for its sins. So to resolve this issue, the one who is to be sacrificed to the gods for the sins of the community, has to be one who is innocent enough that his own sins are not so numerous that he has no room left in himself to also carry the sins of the community.
Killing the sacrificial victim in an especially slow, painful and brutal manner could also have been thought up as a way of justifying the death of one man or woman for a whole community. Let the gods see the lone victim experiencing the brutality equivalent to experiencing a thousand deaths and maybe the gods will agree that his death is more than sufficient to compensate for the hundreds of deaths that the gods would have otherwise taken by some natural calamity.
The whole concept of the ransom sacrifice integral to christianity and the animal sacrifices of Judaism go way, way back in time much earlier and more primitive pagan cultures who devised the concept of sacrifices through superstitious beliefs.
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Helen Keller is not a hero
by StopTheTears infew realize just how wicked some of the most revered people in history were.
helen keeler (1880 to 1968) was a wolf in sheep's clothing, no hero.
keller was a communist.
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Island Man
StopTheTears, I hope you don't consider yourself a christian because your hatred of communism would mean a hatred of certain principles of christianity. 1st century christians practiced communism. Go read the early chapters of the book of Acts.
I believe the problem with most people who see communism as evil is that they don't really know what it is. Many people ignorantly equate communism with dictatorships that take away peoples rights to free speech and other human rights. This association likely arose due to the fact that many communist nations have been dictatorships.
Communism is simply about having an economy where the resources are equitably shared among consumers as opposed to having consumers freely compete to gain as much as their buying power and desire permits. Just like capitalism it has its advantages and disadvantages.
Personally, I prefer a mix of communism and capitalism to gain the advantages of both and to help counteract or minimize the disadvantages of both. Naked extreme capitalism isn't healthy and Naked extreme communism has yet to be shown to be a practicable working system.
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Something odd about how Watchtower portrays prayer versus how JWs actually pray.
by Island Man inwatchtower literature often depicts individuals praying with their hands clasped together or kneeling on the ground in their bedroom.. but i don't recall ever seeing a jw praying like that.
i have never seen a jw praying in a kneeling position or with hands clasped together.
have you?.
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Island Man
But that may not be a sufficient hint for 'worldly' people reading the literature. They will need a stronger hint than that to realize that the JWs are in prayer mode
You're right, someone could easily mistake a photo of a JW dozing off during the assembly program or dozing off at the meeting at the kingdom hall, for a JW praying during the prayer in the baptismal talk or praying during the prayer over the wine or the bread at the memorial. lol
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Something odd about how Watchtower portrays prayer versus how JWs actually pray.
by Island Man inwatchtower literature often depicts individuals praying with their hands clasped together or kneeling on the ground in their bedroom.. but i don't recall ever seeing a jw praying like that.
i have never seen a jw praying in a kneeling position or with hands clasped together.
have you?.
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Island Man
Maybe the editors realize that the Witnesses do not take any special prayer position
I would say that eyes closed with heads slightly bowed, is the JWs' special prayer position. lol.
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Something odd about how Watchtower portrays prayer versus how JWs actually pray.
by Island Man inwatchtower literature often depicts individuals praying with their hands clasped together or kneeling on the ground in their bedroom.. but i don't recall ever seeing a jw praying like that.
i have never seen a jw praying in a kneeling position or with hands clasped together.
have you?.
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Island Man
But I noticed in one of this years convention videos, a youth was praying with hands clasped!
strange turn around.....Was the convention video a portrayal or skit or was it a documentation of actual real-life prayer?
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Something odd about how Watchtower portrays prayer versus how JWs actually pray.
by Island Man inwatchtower literature often depicts individuals praying with their hands clasped together or kneeling on the ground in their bedroom.. but i don't recall ever seeing a jw praying like that.
i have never seen a jw praying in a kneeling position or with hands clasped together.
have you?.
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Island Man
Sometimes are see witnesses depicted praying with hands clasped, in the literature. But I've never seen it in real life. In real life, JWs typically just close their eyes and bow their heads slightly while praying. I've never seen one go down on their knees or clasp their hands in real life.
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Something odd about how Watchtower portrays prayer versus how JWs actually pray.
by Island Man inwatchtower literature often depicts individuals praying with their hands clasped together or kneeling on the ground in their bedroom.. but i don't recall ever seeing a jw praying like that.
i have never seen a jw praying in a kneeling position or with hands clasped together.
have you?.
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Island Man
Watchtower literature often depicts individuals praying with their hands clasped together or kneeling on the ground in their bedroom.
But I don't recall ever seeing a JW praying like that. I have never seen a JW praying in a kneeling position or with hands clasped together. Have you?
What's up with that?